CIN Special: Time Crash

[John Darnacan]

So, what did you think?

[armadillozenith]

Loved it!!

(managed to record it on our newfangled sky box while out helping run youth group)

I loved the heart of it.

DT has a real warmth in his performance which I am sure is genuinely himself - done 'over-the-top' but he can carry that off. PD started in character grumpier than usual but ended up genuinely appreciating his later self - quirky personal approach and all.
These two Doctors are quite similar and DT's reminiscences of how he had changed/stayed the same made it believable. And I had myself wondered about the memory overlay thing (ie DT remembering the experience from when he as PD met DT)... glad to see that was picked up and used!

I'm not sure how much was ad-libbed but Stephen Moffat (et al) surely deserves plaudits for packing so much character and effective mini-plot sensibly into such a compact package.

Then it was all sandwiched neatly between parting from Martha and the Titanic collision, with a 'shields' reference too.

Ace!!! (can I say that?)

[Slagathor]

I downloaded it on "*******.com". Quite good fun. A little sentimental, but good to see Davison again. I enjoyed how Tennant's Doctor poked fun... "Not everyone can wear a decorative vegetable". ;D

[Claire Voyant]

slag said:

I downloaded it on "*******.com". Quite good fun. A little sentimental, but good to see Davison again. I enjoyed how Tennant's Doctor poked fun... "Not everyone can wear a decorative vegetable". ;D

Yes, Davison also took some pokes about the gray hair, not being able to close the coat, and the back of his head. He must have a good sense of humor.

[Slagathor]

I just rewatched Time Crash, and noticed that, yes, RTD did again slip in some gay humor .

Davison (referring to the Master): "Does he still have that rubbish beard?"

Tennant: "No, not this time. Well, he does have a wife."

[Cornelia_Africana]

I didn't think much of this. Davison managed to conduct himself with some dignity as the Doctor, but David Tennant - oh no, he was in full "cockney geezer" mode again! And the writing was full of fanw*nky allusions - LINDA indeed!

Actually, apart from Davies' writing, Tennant, since around the middle of series two, has been the main problem I've had with NewWho. It's not just the generally manic nature of his performance, it's this whole "cockney geezer in space" act. We were initially informed that the "mockneyisms" were present because of the residual telepathic influence of the way Rose Tyler and family spoke, and that they would eventually go away. But they haven't, and it's getting really irritating.

[Claire Voyant]

meridiana said:

I didn't think much of this. Davison managed to conduct himself with some dignity as the Doctor, but David Tennant - oh no, he was in full "cockney geezer" mode again! And the writing was full of fanw*nky allusions - LINDA indeed!

Actually, apart from Davies' writing, Tennant, since around the middle of series two, has been the main problem I've had with NewWho. It's not just the generally manic nature of his performance, it's this whole "cockney geezer in space" act. We were initially informed that the "mockneyisms" were present because of the residual telepathic influence of the way Rose Tyler and family spoke, and that they would eventually go away. But they haven't, and it's getting really irritating.

Being an American, I'm not picking up on what you refer to as "cockney geezer". Could you give me a specific example?

[Cornelia_Africana]

Well, basically, someone who speaks with a cockney accent, but more than that, uses colloquialisms like "come ahn, my son" (!), talks a lot, and has certain mannerisms and gestures - which you can see if you look at a lot of Tennant's facial expressions, in particular pulling the corners of his mouth down as an expression of surprise. There's also a stereotypical image of a cockney as a "chirpy, cheery chappie", maybe a bit of a spiv (con-artist) but basically quite a likeable "geezer", one of the lads, likes a bit of a laugh and joke, etc. If you've ever seen a comedy called "Only Fools and Horses" you'll see the type in that.

Tennant's been playing this image up since he started, and it's starting to get really irritating. It's not just that the "cockneyisms" don't make sense in an alien - how on earth would they know anything about cockney culture? - his way of speaking actually makes it hard to understand what he's saying at times.

Hope this helps!

[Meddling Monkey]

Ouch, a bit rough on poor David. Don't get me wrong, I defend your right to your opinion. However, you seem to dislike most things about the new series. (Although, I could be wrong about this.)

Cornelia, what DO you like about the new series?

[Cornelia_Africana]

monk said:

you seem to dislike most things about the new series. (Although, I could be wrong about this.)

No, this is quite true, I've got more and more disillusioned with it since it started. I did want to like it when it came back, and tried to like it, and certainly did everything I could to give it a chance, but basically, by the time of The Runaway Bride, I had lost interest. I saw about half of series 3, and of course wanted to see the return of the Master, but true to form, Davies managed to ruin the character of the Master as he ruined the character of the Doctor - and following the announcement that Catherine Tate is to be the new comapanion - why bother any more?

There have been a lot of things to like about the new series, most particualrly the production values, and many of the stories have been based on very good ideas. But on the whole, these haven't been developed as well as they could have been. So this is the first problem - there is a lack of breadth and imagination in comparison to the old show. To a certain extent, this can be attributed to the new format, but I also think it inidcates a lack of imagination and originality on Davies' part. Also the tendency to insert silly soapy dialogue, or silly humour in the most unlikely circumstances, has often ruined otherwise good stories. Davies' sense of humour is schoolkiddish, to say the least.

Thirdly, I think the characterisations of both the ninth and tenth Doctors have been wrong. He's an alien, not a regional stereotype. Not that there's any reason why he should not speak with an accent - both the seventh and eighth Doctors did - but this should not be exaggerated. Remember, he's not speaking English but his own language, and making people hear it as English via the TARDIS' telepathic abilities. But an accent is not objectionable if it's given a plausible explanation within the show's fictional universe. But I do think it is a mistake to depict the Doctor as either a "northern hard man" or "cockney spiv" stereotype. For Pete's sake he's an alien from one of the most advanced worlds in the universe - why on earth would such ideas even mean anything to him? I think in doing this to the Doctor's character, Davies thinks he's "relating to the working classes" (how patronising!) But again, an alien culture may not even recognise the human concept of "class".

And this brings me to the biggest problem I have with the new show. Davies just does not take the science-fiction elements seriously. As mentioned above, he shows no awareness whatsoever of how different alien cultures might be to ours. And whenever he's had to create an alien himself it has been a comical, camped-up creation, like the slitheen or LAdy Cassandra, not something to be taken seriously. Compare this with the old series, where the Sensorites, Draconians, Silurians, Menoptera, etc, were all taken seriously as intelligent beings, and given their own history and culture, and members of the species had individual personalities and motives, just as the humans did. Here you could suspend disbelief, and take them seriously as intelligent alien life-forms. But you can't do this with Davies's creations.

He makes no attempt to take the scientific aspects seriously either. Obviously, science-fiction must go beyond current scientific knowldge or it wouldn't be science-fiction, and the old show featured its share of "weird science". But it should be presented in a way that makes it at least appear plausible. You know, you can think "well, it sounds like gobbledygook to me, but I can imagine an alien/future civilisation having such knowledge..". Davies can't be bothered to do this. Shaking out radiation through one's shoe for God's sake - even a schoolkid would recognise the stupidity in that ! It all adds up to the rather unpleasant impression that Davies does not take the show seriously, and is parodying it.

Sorry if this is overly negative, but these are the conclusions I've come to over the past three years. It doesn't give me any pleasure to say these things, but I honestly do think that what made the show special has been lost from Davies' version .

[armadillozenith]

Cornelia, I have found much to love in these three series despite some sombre misgivings... I do think you are right in substantial respects.

RTD has little interest nor I suspect knowledge of science, and it shows, sometimes painfully and embarassingly.
He has an overriding interest in the personal relationships/personal journey aspects, which at times he does extremely well, and to good effect; but, maybe overmuch at times. We could guess at reasons for this.
Also many of the alien stories have had a sameyness. How many 'bodily takeover/unholy union of different species' variations have there been?

His approach is populist/emotional and I suspect somewhat anti-intellectual. The Doctor's advanced knowledge in these stories is not often rationally-based and capable of serious consideration, but usually a solution pulled out of a hat as a magic denouement or handy escape trick.

The needless overt 'gay' references (propagandising?) that tiresomely and disturbingly characterised Series 1 in particular, has hopefully been got out of the program-makers' collective system somewhat by now; certainly I have sensed a shift in tone by Series 3. 'Captain Jack'/John Barrowman drew some flak, I would guess, for both on-screen and in-print outrageousness; and onscreen the Doctor's manner towards him became noticeably less indulgent by the time of his reappearance from Torchwood.

To be fair and balance my criticisms above:
the last season closing story (especially the Doctor's ageing transformation, and relationship to the regenerated Master) I found hugely and surprisingly satisfying, believable and moving on all levels, and on that basis I have renewed hope for the quality of the show and RTD's (maturing?) input to it.

(I hope that doesn't sound patronising; I see Doctor Who as something that is bigger than all of us, that draws the best forth from people, and that leaves everyone involved in it - to the extent we allow and welcome such change - changed for the better... viewers and producers alike... fellow-participants in the grand scheme of things, the heroic venture, it portrays).

[mindmatters]

I agree. Dr. Who has grown beyond its original core group of supporters. He's a mass phenomenon now. And thats not a totally bad thing. I rather enjoy Tennant's performance. But then again, I'm an American....so maybe my opinion doesn't really count. If you dislike Tennant for his accents and colloquialism, I bet you despise Hugh Laurie in House!

[Oldmankrondas]

I love Hugh Laurie as House, but it's so bizarre watching him in something like Blackadder or A Bit Of Fry and Laurie...just goes to show what a brilliant actor he actually is I suppose.

I like Tennant as the Doctor, even if he does tend to go a little over the top every now and again.