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Post by Cornelia_Africana on Oct 29, 2005 12:56:20 GMT
I remember that this used to be a cause of considerable controversy amongst fans, and one of the main reasons why they didn't like the TV Movie. It never bothered me very much, though. It didn't make any difference to his personality, which is the thing that really counts.
I haven't heard too much about it recently however. I wonder, do fans still find it a point of controversy, or have they managed to reconcile themselves to it?
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Post by Fitz Kreiner on Oct 29, 2005 17:03:49 GMT
I dont know!
it never really bothered me either. although i will say, if the doctor had the retina pattern of the human eye, and we saw that the masters eyes in the TVM were far from human, how does that explain that in the past, we've had close ups on the masters eyes, especially when he is hypnotising people, and his eyes have been very human also!
my theory;
that wasnt the real master, the amster is too clever to be caught by the daleks, he programmed a hypnosis subject to behave like him and get caught so that the universe would think him dead so he could carry on some naughtiness without being disturbed!
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Post by Cornelia_Africana on Oct 29, 2005 18:29:25 GMT
Could be! It certainly doesn't sound like the Master's style to allow himself to get caught by an enemy too easily! On the other hand, those green eyes could just be the Cheetah eyes he was acquiring on the planet of the Cheetah people, the last time we saw him.
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Post by Fitz Kreiner on Oct 30, 2005 11:07:53 GMT
i suppose. but i still dont beleive that the master would let himself be caught and then killed. hes quite the slippery fish, and has escaped so many times. look at the number of times the Doctor has escaped from a Dalek cell, i doubt they'd hold the master long, especially as hes so ruthless, he'd be out of there so quick it'd be untrue!  but, the doctor also took prof wagg over to one side to tell him that he was half human, although that could have been a ploy just to lift his security pass. like i said before, the master has had human eyes before and those eyes were not of the master, therefore i'd go to say that wasnt the real master and maybe the doctor has such a love for earth that he considers himself half human, who knows? but its not something to dwell on much, even though i do seem to be going on and on!  ;D |
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Post by The Doc on Oct 30, 2005 15:05:48 GMT
At one time, I was doing some personal research on the TVM. One site had information from Philip Segal, the Executive Producer, that the Master's eyes had that apperance because they wanted some continuity from the final episode of the original series, Survival. It is obvious that only fans of the original show would pick up on that because they didn't explain it in the TVM.
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Post by John Darnacan on Oct 30, 2005 21:59:59 GMT
I didn't mind the half-human thing except it was pointless.
And why would a Gallifreyan device require a human retina to open it?
I liked McGann, the clothes, and the set, but the plot was lacking; and there was too much pandering to the fans.
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Post by Cornelia_Africana on Oct 30, 2005 22:11:56 GMT
Yes, that I think was the main problem with the Movie - there was too little plot. Basically, I think they had about an hour's worth of plot there, so to get it to an hour and thirty-five minutes they had to pad it out with a lof of unexplained things.
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Post by The Doc on Oct 30, 2005 22:38:47 GMT
Well, it isn't like it was the first time padding was used in Doctor Who.
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Post by Fitz Kreiner on Oct 30, 2005 22:52:38 GMT
i agree with all that, however, one of the major faults, and this is not an attack at any americans, but the movie was far too americanised. the whole "love/kiss" thing, car chases, punch ups etc.
But i do think McGann is the most underrated Doctor ever. he had the right demeaner, costume acting style, he fitted the role and made it his for his hour of screen time.
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Post by The Doc on Oct 31, 2005 0:22:34 GMT
I don't know about that. Pertwee sure had his chase scenes and physical fights. And Hartnell was going to get married if I remember correctly!
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Post by Fitz Kreiner on Oct 31, 2005 10:38:26 GMT
yeah, thats true, but it didnt all happen in one story. what i meant was though, that it lost its britishness in being made completely over the pond. well, for me anyway! ill stop talking now as i seem to be losing steam!  |
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Post by The Doc on Oct 31, 2005 12:14:02 GMT
It's okay Mr. Beowulf. The TVM wasn't the greatest Doctor Who. It wasn't the worst either. Paul McGann was great. Eric Roberts was terrible. The plot was so-so with a number of holes. Although, I think some of the criticism of it being too American is unfounded when you think back to Doctor Who's past. Although it definitely was more American than most other Who stories. Just my observation.
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Post by Cornelia_Africana on Oct 31, 2005 17:51:32 GMT
I think it got a lot of things right though, when you consider how many things it could have got wrong. It had a nice Gothic feel for instance, and it got the Doctor's character right, when there could have been a temptation to turn him into an American action hero.
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Post by John Darnacan on Nov 2, 2005 14:32:36 GMT
The scene where he grabs the officer's pistol and points it at himself was classic Doctor. You could imagine Tom Baker or Sylvester McCoy doing the same thing.
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Post by Tumble Lord on Nov 8, 2005 19:56:51 GMT
I believe one of the reasons why the Doctor was made "half-human" was to explain to the new audience, this being's very human appearance, behaviour and indeed the layout of his TARDIS instead of being thoroughly alien.
It jars however as although there are attempts to link it with the established the series with the words; Gallifrey, TARDIS, Daleks plus use established phrases; I have two hearts, Eye of Harmony, The Cloister room but to drop this "twist" into the mix, it suddenly well drops all the mystery aside.
When the Doctor first appears in An Unearthly Child; he's very vague on his origins; "the children of my civilisation would be insulted", "Have you ever wondered what it's like to be wanderers in the fourth dimension?", "We are cut off from our own planet..."
Here however, it seems that the producers and writers wanted to cram in as much verbalised established continuity as possible but then decided lets add the "half-human" twist and thus shoe-horn the audience into further confusion.
I rather think it's more a case that the Doctor made up that line just to distract Professor Wagg of his security pass rather than a definate declaration of him "outing" himself as half-timelord.
The Master on the other hand is, well... he's not the same character from the old series.
The Doctor has to be eccentric, overly British, knowledgable, nice.
The Master is handled badly, though essentially his possession of Bruce is handled viciously but he ceases then to be the chilling arch nemesis. Instead starts spouting ridiculous dialogue like; "I always dress for the occasion" and "Lee is the son that I have always yearned for"
Can't really imagine any of the past Master's saying such things, though the one really effective moment was having him pull off a fingernail and flick it away. If this had been continued, as if the Master resembled corruption itself then it would have added a more chilling aspect to the programme.
Though I'm rather lost, as would other fans as to why he spits venom or why he should be a snake?
Why not a decaying husk that emerges from a greeny-grey mist, make the Master scary, rather than a CGI snake?
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;D
